Who Can Diagnose and Treat ADHD?

Who Can Diagnose and Treat ADHD?

Ned clears up some common misconceptions about who can diagnose ADHD, the types professionals you might encounter on your treatment journey, and what questions you should ask any professional before working with them.

Dr. Hallowell’s new book, ADHD 2.0, comes out January 12th. Pre-order Now!  Click here to pre-order your copy of ADHD 2.0.

Check out #NedTalks on TikTok! @drhallowell

Do you have a question or guest suggestion? Send an email with your thoughts to [email protected].

Thanks to our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness!

Now is a great time to try OmegaBrite as Ned has arranged for a special offer for the first 250 Distraction listeners who respond. Distraction listeners who buy one bottle of 70/10 MD Omega-3, will get a FREE bottle of CBD Full Spectrum 25mg Softgels with the promo code: NED. You’ll get FREE shipping too! These are the same supplements that Dr. H takes every day.

Just enter the code: NED after adding the Omega-3 to your cart and the FREE bottle of CBD and FREE shipping will be automatically applied.

Click HERE to learn more about our other amazing sponsor, Landmark College, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently!

Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is Sarah Guertin and our recording engineer/editor is Scott Persson.

Check out this episode!

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ADHD and… Driving, Divorces, and Daughters

ADHD and… Driving, Divorces, and Daughters

It’s one of Ned’s favorite things to do… respond to listener emails! Today’s questions have Dr. H discussing the real dangers of driving with ADHD, how to handle marriage troubles when your ADHD is getting all of the blame, why girls are under diagnosed, and medication tolerance.

If you have a question or comment you’d like to share, please write an email or record a voice memo (like Miles did in this episode!) and send it to [email protected].

Dr. Hallowell’s new book, ADHD 2.0, comes out January 12th. Pre-order Now!  Click here to pre-order your copy of ADHD 2.0.

Check out #NedTalks on TikTok! @drhallowell

Do you have a question or guest suggestion? Send an email with your thoughts to [email protected].

Thanks to our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness!

Now is a great time to try OmegaBrite as Ned has arranged for a special offer for the first 250 Distraction listeners who respond. Distraction listeners who buy one bottle of 70/10 MD Omega-3, will get a FREE bottle of CBD Full Spectrum 25mg Softgels with the promo code: NED. You’ll get FREE shipping too! These are the same supplements that Dr. H takes every day.

Just enter the code: NED after adding the Omega-3 to your cart and the FREE bottle of CBD and FREE shipping will be automatically applied.

Click HERE to learn more about our other amazing sponsor, Landmark College, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently!

Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is Sarah Guertin and our recording engineer/editor is Scott Persson.

Check out this episode!

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The What, When & Why of Neuropsychological Testing for ADHD

The What, When & Why of Neuropsychological Testing for ADHD

The process of reaching an ADHD diagnosis rests primarily on your    personal history. However neuropsychological testing can reveal a ton of useful information for expanding your understanding of your own ADHD. As Dr. H says in this ep, “It’s the closest thing we have to an MRI of your mind.” But as Ned also points out, this type of testing is not necessary for a diagnosis.

Dr. Hallowell’s new book, ADHD 2.0, comes out January 12th. Pre-order Now!  Click here to pre-order your copy of ADHD 2.0.

Check out #NedTalks on TikTok! @drhallowell

Do you have a question or guest suggestion? Send an email with your thoughts to [email protected].

Click HERE to learn more about our sponsor, Landmark College, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently!

Thanks to our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness! Dr. H takes OmegaBrite supplements every day and that’s why he invited them to sponsor his podcast. SAVE 20% on your first order at OmegaBriteWellness.com with the promo code: Podcast2020.

Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is Sarah Guertin and our recording engineer/editor is Scott Persson.

Check out this episode!

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5,203 Things To Do Instead Of Looking At Your Phone

5,203 Things To Do Instead Of Looking At Your Phone

It’s more important than ever to slow down, look up from whatever device you’re on and take a few moments for yourself. If you’re not sure what to do in those few moments, author Barbara Ann Kipfer has plenty of ideas for you! The list-loving lexicographer and editor of Roget’s International Thesaurus joins Ned for a lighthearted chat about recognizing the simple things in life that bring you joy.

Barbara’s books mentioned in this episode:

5,203 Things To Do Instead Of Looking At Your Phone

14,000 Things To Be Happy About

Dr. Hallowell’s new book, ADHD 2.0, comes out January 12th. Pre-order Now!  Click here to pre-order your copy of ADHD 2.0

Check out #NedTalks on TikTok! @drhallowell

Thanks to our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness! Dr. H takes OmegaBrite supplements every day and that’s why he invited them to sponsor his podcast. SAVE 20% on your first order at OmegaBriteWellness.com with the promo code: Podcast2020

Click HERE to learn more about our sponsor, Landmark College, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. Dr. H has an honorary degree from Landmark! 

Do you have a question or guest suggestion? Send an email with your thoughts to [email protected].

Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is Sarah Guertin and our recording engineer/editor is Scott Persson.

Check out this episode!

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The Benefits of Using a Body Double with How to ADHD and Landmark College

The Benefits of Using a Body Double with How to ADHD and Landmark College

Getting homework and other tasks done remains difficult for many of us as we continue to study and work from home. Jessica McCabe of How to ADHD explains how using a “body double” can help hold you accountable. Jessica talks about how she uses this simple technique to help stay on track in this special episode sponsored by Landmark College in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently!

Check out Jessica’s ADHD videos at HowtoADHD.

Share your thoughts with us! How have you been adapting to learning from home?  Write an email or record a voice memo and send it to [email protected]

Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is Sarah Guertin and our audio engineer/editor is Scott Persson.

Do you know a student with ADHD or other learning difference looking for a higher education experience? Tell them about our amazing sponsor, Landmark College, in Putney, Vermont. Learn more HERE.

Check out this episode!

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Ned’s Attitude of Gratitude

Ned’s Attitude of Gratitude

Happy Thanksgiving to all of our listeners! We are so thankful for our Distraction community and our neurodiverse brains. Ned shares a special message of thanks in this week’s mini podcast.

Check out #NedTalks on TikTok! @drhallowell

Dr. Hallowell’s new book, ADHD 2.0, comes out January 12th. Pre-order Now!  Click here to pre-order your copy of ADHD 2.0.

Thanks to our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness! Dr. H takes OmegaBrite supplements every day and that’s why he invited them to sponsor his podcast. SAVE 20% on your first order at OmegaBriteWellness.com with the promo code: Podcast2020.

Click HERE to learn more about our sponsor, Landmark College, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. Dr. H has an honorary degree from Landmark!

Do you have a question or guest suggestion? Send an email with your thoughts to [email protected].

Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is Sarah Guertin and our recording engineer/editor is Scott Persson.

Check out this episode!

A transcript of this episode is below.


Dr. Ned Hallowell:
This episode is made possible by our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness. I’ve taken their omega-3 supplements for many years and so as my wife and that’s why I invited them to sponsor my podcast. I’m proud to have them. You can find all of their products online at omegabritewellness.com. And bright is intentionally misspelled, B R I T E, omegabritewellness.com.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
This episode is also sponsored by Landmark College. Another institution that I have warm, personal relationship with in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. [email protected]

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Hello, this is Dr. Ned Hallowell with a mini episode on the theme of Thanksgiving. No, I’m not going to give you a pious lecture on all the reasons there are to be grateful, but I am going to invite you to enter into an attitude of gratitude. How’s that an attitude of gratitude, but in a very genuine heartfelt way.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Now, I think I’ve told this story before on the podcast, but I’m going to tell it again because it demonstrates most vividly a genuine heartfelt expression of gratitude. And this came from a dear friend of mines son when he was six years old and he was sitting at the family Thanksgiving dinner. This was obviously way before we had pandemics. And 20 or so of his aunts and uncles, cousins, grandparents, mothers, fathers, et cetera, were sitting around the table and some had card tables to the side. There was the big extended Thanksgiving audience. No holiday brings together for a sit down dinner, anything quite like it. And they were doing a family tradition, which was to go around the table, each person standing up and stating one part of their life, something in their life that they’re grateful for. And so grandma begins by, “I’m grateful for all my grandchildren are here, smiling at me.”

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
And granddad says, “Oh, I’m grateful for grandma and all the great years you’ve given me.” And one of the teenagers says, “I’m grateful for the football games we’re going to get to watch.” And until it comes to this little boy about halfway through the proceeds and this little boy was not shy and he stood up and he said to the assembled gathering, “I am grateful for my penis.” And he sat down.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I think that is a perfect demonstration of heartfelt, genuine, sincere gratitude. So I would invite you all to think to yourselves, in equally a heartfelt, sincere way what are you truly grateful for? What are you really glad to have in your life? And I’m not going to ask you to state it because I can’t see you and couldn’t hear you anyway. But if you want to say it out loud, by all means, say it out loud, say it loud and say it clear to yourself or to whoever you’re sitting with and just let yourself wonder what are you really grateful for?

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Now it doesn’t have to be anything the least bit noble. For example, I’m really grateful that the Patriots played such a great game last night and came out of their funk. Some of you know, I’m a long time Patriot season ticket holder, and this is not been a good year for us. We lost Tom Brady and we went into a swoon, but last night we rose up in the middle of a monsoon and struck down one of the best teams in the league. The Baltimore Ravens.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I’m very grateful for that. Genuinely sincerely grateful for that. Perhaps not as grateful as that little boy was, but I’m very grateful for that. So think to yourself, I’m sure we’re all grateful on the good news about vaccines. Looks like there might be vaccines on the near horizon. I’m sure you’re all very grateful for your best friend or a loved one, your dog. These are things that I’m very grateful for, but I just want to allow a few seconds for you to daydream and wonder to yourself, what am I really grateful for? So I’m going to be quiet for 10 seconds and let your mind wander.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Well, I hope you settled on a few items. Places, memories, hopes that you’re grateful for. I’m grateful for you. I’m grateful for our audience. I’m grateful for the time we’ve spent together over these years. I’m truly grateful, truly, truly, truly grateful.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
And I’m wishing you all a very happy, happy Thanksgiving. Even if you can’t be as very few of us can be with all the people you love and would like to be with, you can bring them all to mind. You can even bring them to vision perhaps via Zoom, but they are with you mentally, if not physically.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I wish you the happiest and the most gratitude filled an attitude of gratitude of Thanksgiving holidays.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Well, that’s it for our mini today. Thanks to our sponsor. OmegaBright Wellness, save 20% on your first order at omegabritewellness.com with the promo code podcast 2020. Please reach out to us with your questions and comments by emailing [email protected]

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
That’s [email protected] And if you happen to be on TikTok, my new favorite platform, you can find me there with the username @drhallowell. I’ve posted a whole bunch of videos about common ADHD issues, and they’re only 60 seconds a piece.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Take a look and let me know what you think. Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our recording engineer and editor is the estimable Scott Persson. And our producer is the very talented Sarah Guertin.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I’m Dr. Ned Hallowell until next time.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
The episode you just heard was made possible by my good friends at OmegaBrite Wellness. I take their supplements every day and that’s why I invited them to sponsor my podcast. Shop online at OmegaBrite and that’s B R I T E wellness.com

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How Estrogen and Brain Shame Affect Women with ADHD

How Estrogen and Brain Shame Affect Women with ADHD

Psychotherapist Sari Solden is a pioneer in the field of women with ADHD. Her new workbook with co-author Michelle Frank PsyD, A Radical Guide for Women with ADHD, shows women how to cultivate their strengths and learn to communicate with confidence and clarity. She and Ned talk about how hormones affect a woman’s executive function, why “brain shame” holds women back,  and why it’s never too late to be diagnosed with ADHD.

You can find Sari’s blog at ADHD Radical Guide.

To purchase one of Sari’s books go to SariSolden.com.

Check out all of the #NedTalks on TikTok! @drhallowell

Dr. Hallowell’s new book, ADHD 2.0, comes out January 12th. Pre-order Now!  Click here to pre-order your copy of ADHD 2.0.

Thanks to our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness! Dr. H takes OmegaBrite supplements every day and that’s why he invited them to sponsor his podcast. SAVE 20% on your first order at OmegaBriteWellness.com with the promo code: Podcast2020.

Click HERE to learn more about our sponsor, Landmark College, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. Dr. H has an honorary degree from Landmark!

Do you have a question or guest suggestion? Send an email with your thoughts to [email protected].

Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is Sarah Guertin and our recording engineer/editor is Scott Persson.

Check out this episode!

A transcript of this episode is below.


Dr. Ned Hallowell:
This episode is made possible by our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness. I’ve taken their Omega-3 supplements for many years, and so has my wife and that’s why I invited them to sponsor my podcast, I’m proud to have them. You can find all of their products online at omegabritewellness.com, and bright is intentionally misspelled B-R-I-T-E, omegabritewellness.com. This episode is also sponsored by Landmark College, another institution that I have warm personal relationship with in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. Learn more at lcdistraction.org.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Hello, and welcome to Distraction, I’m your host, Dr. Ned Hallowell. We have a wonderful guest today, one of my oldest friends, oldest in the sense of we’ve known each other a long time, not that she is old. But we go back, we were just talking before we started, to 1993 at a little conference in Ann Arbor, Michigan where she lives, about the ADHD and opening it up to adults because back then people still thought of it as just a condition that children have.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
And she is a true pioneer. Her name is Sari Solden, S-A-R-I S-O-L-D-E-N. And she’s just this wonderful, brilliant, kind, loving, smart, experienced person. And she really helped bring the whole conversation about ADD/ADHD to a female audience, because as I said, at the beginning, it was pretty much consigned to little boys, hyperactive little boys, and it took a long time to expand it. Well, the expansion happened in large part because of Sari Solden. She’s been a psychotherapist for over 30 years and is the best-selling author of three books, Women With Attention Deficit Disorder, that was the groundbreaking first one. And then, Journeys Through ADDulthood, and the words ADDulthood. And her most recent book, a wonderful book called, A Radical Guide For Women With ADHD, really, really good.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
So for anyone who wants to understand ADHD and particularly for women or the men who would like to understand them better, get one of Sari’s books or even better get all three of them. She has a private practice in Ann Arbor, Michigan, where she and her team specialize in providing psychotherapy and consultation to women and men with ADHD. So thank you so much my wonderful friend Sari Solden for being here with us on Distraction.

Sari Solden:
No, it’s so exciting to talk to you again, Ned. It’s been a long time, I love talking to you and your audience.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Just give us the headlines, what’s special about women and their lives with ADHD?

Sari Solden:
Well, there’s lots of things special about women and women with ADHD. It’s difficult to get diagnosed, first of all, even now as a woman with ADHD, because often, like you said, we don’t meet that stereotype of a hyperactive, troublemaking little boy. And so that causes a lot of difficulty, not just with the diagnosis, but throughout life because your self image, because you didn’t know was sort of conflated with your unique brain wiring. So early on often little girls are the opposite of what you would think, they’re people-pleasing, they’re internalizing their difficulties, they’re often doing well in school, but they’re masked by support they’re often getting at home or structure or being smart. And often their diagnosis is delayed until they hit a wall either when they go to college or when they get married or when they try to do other things that other people at their own ability level can do, and then they’re often diagnosis depressed or anxious. So it takes many years often to untangle these things, and in the meantime, women are left feeling so confused and then with a distorted kind of sense of self about themselves.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
What age do you see people getting diagnosed, women or girls?

Sari Solden:
Well, if you’re lucky, and you’re a girl and you’re acting out and you’ve come to someone’s attention you can get diagnosed. But often I have people from their early 20s all the way through, my oldest client, I think I diagnosed, actually [inaudible 00:04:49] at 80 and she died in peace at 85 and after knowing what she had struggled with her whole life. So it really runs the whole gamut. It just depends often if they have kids who are getting diagnosed, they find that out, or there’s so much more resources now, but really it runs the gamut. I would say, middle, perimenopause or right around there. A lot of women start to lose any kind of compensations they might’ve developed because of these extra difficulties and they start to seek some help.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah, my daughter was one of the lucky ones. She got diagnosed in the third grade and she’s now 31 and is a marketing executive for the National Football League. [crosstalk 00:05:28].

Sari Solden:
Yeah, no, I heard you say that. And yeah, I mean, it’s funny to say lucky, but it is lucky because you can identify it, you get support, you know what’s going on in your own brain, even though you might be having difficulties. But you can imagine things smart and having all these amazing ideas and all these amazing characteristics and you can’t figure out why you can’t manifest it, why you’re so disorganized, overwhelmed, even though maybe you’re successful in other areas so nobody can understand you or believe you.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I recently voyaged into the world of TikTok and it’s amazing, someone told me I should do it a month ago. And so I’ve posted, I think I’ve got about 15 or 16 60 seconds of posts on ADHD in TikTok. And much to my amazement, they’ve so far received about 4 million views. There’s a tremendous appetite for, I think that format the 60 second soundbite. You can say a lot in 60 seconds, but one of the questions that keeps coming up on TikTok is, is there a link between estrogen hormones and ADHD? And you’re the one to ask, so what about that?

Sari Solden:
Well, I’m not the one to ask, but I do know enough about it to know that whenever you’re hitting a particular hormonal challenge in your life, it’s going to affect your estrogen and your ADHD. So particularly around perimenopause, when you start to sort of withdraw from your estrogen, it’s going to also affect the dopamine, and so that’s why people start to have more difficulties. Premenstrually, at puberty, anytime you’re starting to lower the estrogen you’re also affecting the dopamine which is involved with these executive functions and the ADHD. So I’m not [crosstalk 00:07:23].

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
So would it make sense for a woman who is perimenopausal to combine estrogen supplementation with stimulant medication?

Sari Solden:
Well, I would definitely say to try to involve both doctors, your psychopharmacologist and your gynecologist, good luck, but hopefully they could talk. There’s more controversy about hormone replacement therapy these days, so not always a good idea for everybody, but often to increase your, or change your medication, you’d be the expert on that. But to up your dose even before periods, people start maybe needing to increase, at least if you know. The main thing, Ned, I think is, besides fooling around with the medication, which you definitely need to probably tweak around those times, is to know what’s going on, to know that this is happening, to know that you’re not going crazy, you’re not necessarily developing Alzheimer’s, which is what most women previously undiagnosed with ADHD or even with ADHD started to fear because their memories gets so much even more impacted around this time. So the fear takes over, and so you can adjust your life in many ways to make it work better for you. If you know you’re going into a period like this and you know what’s happening.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), mm-hmm (affirmative). So talk it over with your gynecologist or someone who understands hormones and with your ADD doctor.

Sari Solden:
Yeah, it’d be nice if everybody understood it and talked to each other, but sometimes you have to push a little bit and try to advocate for yourself, which is always hard for women. And that’s really what I’m about now with women, it’s not just about their ADHD now, I think what’s different in my new book is we’re just talking about a woman now who has brain wiring differences and difficulties, but certainly that’s not the only thing that’s defining her or by which she needs to measure her own worth. And so learning to speak, learning to move a little bit more into the center of your own life, learning to use your voice, learning to have power in the world, and in a relationship. So I guess our emphasis more now is for women not just to see themselves only through this lens, but to see themselves as all women need to, as powerful people in the world learning to live a fulfilling life.

Sari Solden:
And the ADHD is one track, it’s chronic, it’s your brain, it needs support, and medication, strategies, all that. And that’s chronic, but that has to be untangled from you as a woman, as a whole human being who has strengths and gifts and needs to move into a life. And the problem with women is that they don’t do that, they come in all wanting to be fixed, not wanting to wait until their ADHD has gone or until they’re perfectly organized. So I guess what I’ve been identified with, most of my writing, has been these gender role expectations that women, all women are subject to, but women with ADHD have internalize these expectations and idealized them. And so this idea that they carry inside of them about what a woman should be able to do, or why can’t they be like other women, these messages from the media, from growing up, from everything around them that they can’t do well that stays with them and really wounds them and haunts them.

Sari Solden:
And that’s a big part of the work is not just managing their brain, but really digging in much deeper. I guess, I think of it as healing more than curing, I think that’s a better way of thinking about ADHD because restoring a person, so this feeling of wholeness about themselves and viewing themselves much more accurately, not just viewing the difficulties. Or just the strengths, just as a whole person with who are you, your enduring traits, your resilience, your humor, creativity. I know you believe all this too, Ned, but just moving forward in your life and not waiting to get over… Like you say, you just have to be as organized as you need to be to move, but for a purpose to move towards something compelling, not just to get over, not to be perfectly organized.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Right, exactly, exactly.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Over the past few months, I’ve spoken to my friend, the founder and creator of OmegaBrite Wellness, Dr. Carol Locke, about the benefits of taking OmegaBrite’s Omega-3’s CBD, and other supplements. Here’s a clip from one of those conversations.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Could you tell us a little bit about the study, recent study that showed OmegaBrite reduced inflammation and anxiety in medical students?

Dr. Carol Locke:
Yeah, this was a great study, it was done at Ohio State and it was done on medical students, 68 medical students without any medical problems done over 12 weeks. And it was a blinded study, meaning the researchers and the students did not know if they were taking the OmegaBrite or the dummy capsules. And what it found was a 20% reduction in anxiety and a 14% reduction in the inflammatory cytokine IL-6. So that you had a very powerful benefit from the OmegaBrite shown in this study, and that’s something that people could use right now in their life, reducing their anxiety and stress and inflammation.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Distraction listeners, you can save 20% on your first order at omegabritewellness.com by using the promo code, podcast 2020. All right, let’s get back to today’s topic. Can you talk a little bit about brain shame and the patterns you’ve identified in the neuro diverse women you work with?

Sari Solden:
Oh, you must have read my essay. I wrote an essay called Brain Shame-

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Sari Solden:
I should have reviewed that.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Imagine that, I would actually read something you wrote Sari.

Sari Solden:
Oh my God, I would have reviewed it had I known. Well, I talk about it as similar to body shame, and it’s important now even as we all get older. My mother when she was 85 said, “Oh, I feel so ashamed, I can’t remember something.” So we feel so ashamed about our brains no matter what age we are, and especially women with ADHD, they compare themselves. So it’s [inaudible 00:13:56] if you went to a doctor and they said, “Okay, well this week we’re going to measure success on how much weight you lose this week.” Versus, “Okay, how can you feel well and have wellness and feel good about yourself?” And instead of measuring your worth by becoming a size three, it’s the same thing with brain shame, women compare themselves in very toxic ways to other women who can multitask, and go to the gym, and take care of the kids, and work and take care of the house.

Sari Solden:
So executive function for women is so central to their functioning, they believe still. And it’s amazing, the women I work with in their 20s, you would think would feel differently. But in therapy, when push comes to shove, still this idea that they wouldn’t be able to cook, or clean, or do all these things well enough, or entertain, or do all the birthday cards and niceties of life, all the stuff women still feel is their job even now, and still have no way of communicating and measuring their worth and letting themselves be in one down positions in relationships because of this. Even if their spouses don’t blame them so much, they carry this with them and feel like they’re not equally valuable in a relationship, and that’s part of the big work in therapy [crosstalk 00:15:19].

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
And how do you help them with that, Sari?

Sari Solden:
I mean, I think there’s no substitute, first of all, is a therapist for really seeing your clients, seeing them, knowing them, listening to them. And it takes a long time sometimes depending on how much they devalue themselves. But when you’re working with a counselor or a coach or anybody who can really see you or other group members who have some of the same issues as you do, eventually those women start to internalize themselves or trust you enough to start taking small risks, moving slowly toward the edge of their comfort zone to start having new positive experiences of themselves, starting to do something new, go to a read at a poetry reading. I have one client, she joined the talent show at the latest conference after I encouraged her. Doing something new and getting other people to see you and value you for a larger picture than you’re ADD difficulties.

Sari Solden:
So that’s the hard part getting to a place where somebody through your view of them can start to see themselves in a new way. And once that happens… Instead of just starting out changing, berating yourself, instead of just accepting yourself, we always say in our book, only dogs and furniture need fixing. So getting people over that idea that they have to be fixed. You have to support your brain and get help for it, but for the purpose of you moving into new areas of success and you have to find people who can value you and see you. And sometimes you have to start out in ADD support groups with that and then move into other people who do other things that you do, creative people, adventurous people, other people who are like you, instead of always feeling like you’re different.

Sari Solden:
Women with ADHD, the biggest problem they have is not their ADHD it’s their hiding, and pretending, and moving away from people, and avoiding things and being inauthentic. And so through the book, especially our workbook, we try to help people develop a healthier relationship to their brain and to enter themselves and to understand what they learned about being different, how difficult the messages they got about that. These days to learn to be different, what else do we need in this world except to accept our differences, to celebrate differences, to unite with people who have other differences and to embrace all that. And this is a perfect time in the world for that message.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah, yeah, really. And when you say a perfect time, because why?

Sari Solden:
Because of the world where everybody’s moving away from each other and there’s so much anger and hostility and differences. And we have to start to work toward accepting ourselves being a role models for… Sometimes people say, “How can I be a good parent, a good mother to my children when I have these problems?” And I always say, “Well, you can be a role model to your children by teaching that we all can accept ourselves with differences and that we accept other people who are different from us.” So whether it’s the racial differences in the world or the political differences, we’re not going to get anywhere until we all start to model that we can embrace our own differences and welcome other people’s differences and respect each other’s differences.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah, no, so true. Where you and I work is in the realm of mental differences and brain differences, the sort of invisible differences, but they’re very real.

Sari Solden:
They’re very real, and neurodiversity is just a part of diversity in general. And that’s why I like to call it neurodiverse now instead of ADHD, which is such a stereotype now, and nobody understands it. But when you just say, “Hey, we’re all different. We’re all similar in a lot of ways, and we’re all different.” Everybody has differences, ADHD or other stuff, and you have to know your particular difference and work on it, but that’s not all of who you are.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), mm-hmm (affirmative). I want to tell you about Landmark College in beautiful Putney, Vermont. It is the best college in the world for students who learn differently with ADHD, for other learning differences or autism spectrum disorder. It’s fully accredited, not for profit, offering bachelors and associate degrees, bridge programs, online dual enrollment courses for high school students and summer programs. They use a strength-based model at Landmark, which as you know, is the model that I certainly have developed and subscribed to, to give students the skills and strategies they need to achieve their goals in life and really expand upon what they believe they’re capable of doing. It is just a wonderful, wonderful place, and I can’t say enough good about it. I, myself have an honorary degree from Landmark College of which I am very proud. Landmark College in Putney, Vermont is the college of choice for students who learn differently. To learn more go to lcdistraction.org, that’s lcdistraction.org. Okay, let’s get back to today’s topic. Looking forward, what do you see coming down the road in the world of ADHD?

Sari Solden:
Well, I think this broadening out to neurodiversity is important, also instead of just… I think it’s just become meaningless, it’s become stereotyped, it’s become people don’t take it seriously. And so really advocating for a broadening out of that. But I’m working now with a lot of professional women, neurodiverse professionals. Actually, I’m getting a lot of satisfaction out of… I did a long course on changing the conversation from pathology to humanism so that I’m trying to teach people across domains, whether they’re therapists, they’re doctors, they’re organizers, they’re coaches, podcasters, support group leaders like to look at people over a pathology or viewing someone as who they are self over symptoms. And we had a movement from character to the medicalization for awhile, but now we have to go back to humanism.

Sari Solden:
And I think, if we understand that you don’t treat people with ADHD as just a different breed of person. A lot of people just see ADHD people in therapy as, “Okay, that’s an academic problem. Or, “Get them over, get them accountable, whatever they want to say.” Versus saying, “Okay, here’s a human being and they have these particular difficulties, and this is who they are as a person. And this is their whole life.” So that’s part of what I’m trying to do is I change the conversation around people who have neurodiverse brains from something that they just have to get over, work on tips, tools, strategies versus, “Hey, this is who you are as a human being, work on this but you need to figure out…” You have a right and feel entitled, for women to feel entitled, to move to a more fulfilling life and fulfilling relationships because a lot of times women don’t feel like they’re entitled to that if they still have clutter.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sari Solden:
[crosstalk 00:00:22:38].

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I tell people I don’t treat disabilities, I help people unwrap their gifts.

Sari Solden:
Exactly.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Often it begins by convincing them that they have gifts to unwrap, the shame is so great that they-

Sari Solden:
Their shame was so great.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
… yeah.

Sari Solden:
And yeah, and so the shame becomes my desk is messy, to I’m a mess, to I’m bad. I mean, the shame is very deeply in there. And so if you see their gifts then they’re able to believe that eventually, but no one is usually seeing their gifts. So sometimes what we do as clinicians with people like that is just see them, and I mean that’s a big gift in itself, so that helps. That helps.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah, absolutely it is. Absolutely, it is. Well, I could talk to you for a long time but our podcasts have an audience that can’t pay attention all that long. So we should wrap up-

Sari Solden:
Correct, exactly.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
To learn more about Sari or to purchase one of her books, go to Sari, S-A-R-I, Solden, S-O-L-D-E-N, sarisolden.com. And you can find her blog at adhdradicalguide.com.

Sari Solden:
Thank you.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
It’s so nice to have you and go out and buy her books. The most recent one is The Radical Guide, and then the first one was Women With Attention Deficit Disorder, that was really such a groundbreaker. You can find Distraction-

Sari Solden:
Yeah, and you can find [crosstalk 00:24:07]… I just want to say that these groups I’m talking about, these mentoring professional groups for professionals who have ADHD, that’s on my website too, that I’m really excited about.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Oh, good. So they can find groups-

Sari Solden:
For professionals.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
… mentoring professionals. Wonderful. Oh, that’s wonderful. And that’s at sarisolden.com?

Sari Solden:
Yeah, uh-huh (affirmative).

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
That’s a great thing.

Sari Solden:
Yeah, it’s exciting.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
So for anybody professional, who wants to-

Sari Solden:
Who are neurodiverse, neurodiverse professionals who work in the field, I’m really excited about that.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah, well see, I think we’re all neurodiverse so you could invite everybody.

Sari Solden:
You’re all welcome to come along, Ned. Stop by.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I’d love to join.

Sari Solden:
All right, go ahead and I’ll be quiet.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
No, no, you can interrupt, this is the boring part. I read the close to the show but I have to do it.

Sari Solden:
Thank you for inviting me, okay.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Well, no, no, no, I’ll stay on and I’ll say goodbye. You can find Distraction on all the social channels and you can find me on TikTok. My username is @Dr.Hallowell. I’ve uploaded a bunch of ADHD related videos, 60 seconds a piece, and I’d really love to hear what you think. Send me a DM or email, [email protected], that’s [email protected] Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is the extraordinarily talented Sarah Guertin and our audio engineer and editor is the equally extraordinarily talented Scott Person. I’m Dr. Ned Hallowell, and thank you so much for joining me and my wonderful special guest Sari Solden.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
The episode you just heard was made possible by my good friends at OmegaBrite Wellness. I take their supplements every day, and that’s why I invited them to sponsor my podcast. Shop online at OmegaBrite, and that’s B-R-I-T-E wellness.com.

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Don’t Overcomplicate Role of Medication

Don’t Overcomplicate Role of Medication

Dr. Hallowell recently started sharing content on TikTok and his video, “Don’t Overcomplicate Role of Medication” left users wanting to know more. So in this mini ep, Dr. H answers a few of the questions that came up like, “How does a stimulant help a hyperactive brain?” and “Do I have to be on medication for life?”

Check out all of the #NedTalks on TikTok! @drhallowell

Dr. Hallowell’s new book, ADHD 2.0, comes out January 12th. Pre-order Now!  Click here to pre-order your copy of ADHD 2.0.

Thanks to our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness! Dr. H takes OmegaBrite supplements every day and that’s why he invited them to sponsor his podcast. SAVE 20% on your first order at OmegaBriteWellness.com with the promo code: Podcast2020.

Click HERE to learn more about our sponsor, Landmark College, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. Dr. H has an honorary degree from Landmark!

Do you have a question or guest suggestion? Send an email with your thoughts to [email protected].

Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is Sarah Guertin and our recording engineer/editor is Scott Persson.

Check out this episode!

A transcript of this episode is below.


Dr. Ned Hallowell:
This episode is made possible by our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness. I’ve taken their Omega-3 supplements for many years, and so has my wife, and that’s why I invited them to sponsor my podcast. I’m proud to have them. You can find all of their products online at omegabritewellness.com and brite is intentionally misspelled B-R-I-T-E. Omegabritewellness.com. This episode is also sponsored by Landmark College, another institution that I have warm personal relationship with, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. Learn more at lcdistraction.org.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Hello. This is Dr. Ned Hallowell with a mini episode of Distraction. Today I’m going to answer a question that came up through my TikTok platform. I’ve recently started posting 60 second videos on TikTok, and they’re under the label #NedTalks on TikTok. They’re not TedTalks, but NedTalks. It’s about neural developmental experience discussed. NED. Neural developmental experience. Neurodiverse experience discussed. I’m sorry. Neurodiverse, N, Experienced, E-D discussed. NedTalks. Not TedTalks, but Ned talks. Oh, you get me going the bouncing around with words, which is what I love to do. Anyway, one of the NedTalks was about medication in treating ADHD, and the question came up. Can you explain how a stimulant helps someone who’s already stimulated? Namely someone who has ADHD. The explanation is simple, but I should add, it’s why categorizing these medications is so misleading.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
The fact that it’s called a stimulant does not mean that it juices you up. They’re given a name… They’re anti-seizure medications that are good mood stabilizers, and so if you’re taking an anti-seizure medication, that doesn’t mean you have a seizure disorder. These meds are given labels, but their application may have nothing to do with the label. Now the fact is, a good way for you to understand why a stimulant helps someone with ADHD, who’s already very stimulated.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Think of my model for ADHD, which is you have a race car brain with bicycle brakes. You’ve got a powerful brain. Powerful, powerful brain. Active imagination, ideas flowing all the time, popping up all over the place, but you have weak brakes. You have bicycle brakes. Brakes that aren’t strong enough to control the awesome power of your brain. Well, stimulant medication like Adderall and Ritalin stimulate the brakes. They stimulate the inhibitory circuits in the brain that allow you to control the power of your brain. That’s how they work. They stimulate the brakes. Now, it happens that they produce the… You end up with more dopamine. We can get into all the neurotransmitters, but the basic sort of model that you can remember is, stimulant medication stimulates your brakes, thereby giving you more control.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Along with that question came the question, how long can these meds be taken? They can be taken for as long as they’re helpful. There’s no limit to how long. You can take them for decades, as long as they don’t cause side effects, and as long as they’re effective. Now, you don’t develop tolerance, so you don’t have to increase the dose over and over. I have people who are on the same dose of Adderall for 10 years. They didn’t change it at all. Once in a while, the meds will cease to be effective. Instead of increasing the dose, what you ought to do is just stop the meds for a few days, and then start them up again at the same dose. Often, they’ll kick back in. Why that works, I don’t know. Maybe it gives you… The neurotransmitter’s a rest. That makes no sense neurologically, but it makes sense intuitively.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Whatever. I’ve just found over my many years, that if you simply stop the stimulants for a few days, and start them up at the same level, they kick back in and are effective. This medication… By the way, these medications are not based on how big you are, or how old you are. Most medications in the world are based on milligrams per kilogram. The dose is based on how big you are. Not so with these. Some little people need a lot, and some big people need only a little. It’s a matter of trial and error, but once you find the right dose, you can stick with that for many, many years. People asked, “How long do I have to take it?” You don’t have to take it at all. ADHD is not a life-threatening condition. It’s not like insulin for a diabetic. You never have to take these meds.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
You see, the ADHD is not going to kill you, but it can impair your life significantly, so you may find that you want to take it. Untreated ADHD can… Russell Barkley has shown this over a lifetime, reduce your life expectancy because of all the mishaps that can accompany untreated ADHD, but you don’t ever have to take the medication. Now, if you find a dose of a medication that you like, that helps you, that doesn’t cause side effects, chances are you will want to take it indefinitely for as long as it continues to be effective, and not cause the side effects. It’s really straightforward that way.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Then, what kind of doctors should you see? Again, I did another mini episode on this, but any doctor who has experience in prescribing. It’s got to be an MD, or a nurse practitioner, or a physician’s assistant who works with an MD. Anyone who has medical training can prescribe stimulant medication. That means psychologists can’t, social workers can’t, but psychologists and social workers almost always work with someone who has an MD, so they can refer you to their… What’s called medical backup, or whatever term they want to use for it, but someone who works with them, and can prescribe. You need to have somebody who has a medical degree, an MD, overseeing the prescribing of the medication. You’d never want to take these meds without careful supervision.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
While they are very safe and effective, they can be dangerous if you are not… If you don’t know what you’re doing. If you do know what you’re doing, or working with a professional who knows what he or she is doing, then they are indeed among the safest meds we’ve got, as long as they’re used properly. They are controlled substances, so you have to take them again, with respect and with caution.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
You never want to give these medicines away, you never want to sell them, you never want to… If somebody says, “Could I borrow one of your Adderall? I have a test.” You have to say, no, you can’t, and please don’t ask me again because it’s illegal. You need to be careful. In any case, medication is a powerful tool in the toolbox. Just work with a doctor who has plenty of experience in prescribing. Well, that’s it for me for this mini episode of Distraction.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Thanks to our sponsor OmegaBrite Wellness. Save 20% on your first order at omegabritewellness.com with the promo code Podcast2020. Please reach out to us with your questions, and comments by emailing [email protected] If you’re on TikTok, you can find me there with the username @drhallowell. I’ve posted lots of videos about common ADHD issues, each one only 60 seconds. Take a look, and let me know what you think.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our recording engineer and editor is the wonderful Scott Persson, and our producer is the also wonderful Sarah Guertin. I am Dr. Ned Hallowell, until next time when I will still be Dr. Ned Hallowell.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
The episode you just heard was made possible by my good friends at OmegaBrite Wellness. I take their supplements every day, and that’s why I invited them to sponsor my podcast. Shop online at OmegaBrite, and that’s B-R-I-T-E wellness.com.

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Why Some People Believe Fake News

Why Some People Believe Fake News

Legitimate fake news is a real threat to democracy, says Michigan State University psychology professor Zach Hambrick. And as you’ll hear him explain, there are reasons why some people believe fake news more than others. It’s an eye-opening conversation that reveals how all of us can fall victim to confirmation bias, the importance of fact-checking, and what happens to people’s beliefs when politics are removed from the equation.

Professor Hambrick’s Article in Scientific American: Cognitive Ability and Vulnerability to Fake News

Dr. Hallowell’s new book, ADHD 2.0, comes out January 12th. Pre-order Now!  Click here to pre-order your copy of ADHD 2.0.

Check out Dr. H on TikTok! @drhallowell

Thanks to our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness! Dr. H takes OmegaBrite supplements every day and that’s why he invited them to sponsor his podcast. SAVE 20% on your first order at OmegaBriteWellness.com with the promo code: Podcast2020.

Click HERE to learn more about our sponsor, Landmark College, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. Dr. H has an honorary degree from Landmark!

What do you think? Send an email with your thoughts to [email protected].

Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is Sarah Guertin and our recording engineer/editor is Scott Persson.

Check out this episode!

A transcript of this episode is below.


Dr. Ned Hallowell:
This episode is made possible by our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness. I’ve taken their omega-3 supplements for many years, and so as my wife, and that’s why I invited them to sponsor my podcast. I’m proud to have them. You can find all of their products online at OmegaBriteWellness.com. And bright is intentionally misspelled, B-R-I-T-E. OmegaBriteWellness.com. This episode is also sponsored by Landmark College, another institution that I have a warm personal relationship with, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. Learn more at LCDistraction.org.

Zach Hambrick:
What’s critical here is that people be critical of their own beliefs.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah.

Zach Hambrick:
We constantly, in this information age where we’re constantly bombarded with information, some of which will be true and some of which will be false, we just have to be cognizant, A, that there’s a lot of mis- and disinformation out there and, B, that you have to take responsibility for your own beliefs and interrogate them to see whether or not they’re true.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Hello, and welcome to Distraction. I’m your host, Dr. Ned Hallowell. We have a fascinating topic and a fascinating guest to talk about that topic, and particularly appropriate of the era, election era we’re in right now. I guess it’s not an era, it’s a time, but in any case, a psychology professor at Michigan State University, Zach Hambrick, co-author of the article Cognitive Ability and Vulnerability to Fake News.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Cognitive Ability and Vulnerability to Fake News, that appeared in Scientific American in February of 2018. And the article suggests that real fake news, this is an oxymoron, but real fake news is a serious problem. Analysis by Buzzfeed revealed that during the final three months of the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign, the 20 most popular false election stories generated around 1.3 million more Facebook engagements, shares, reactions, and comments then did the 20 most popular legitimate stories. That’s just amazing.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
And the most popular fake story was Pope Francis shocks the world, endorses Donald Trump for President. So let’s get right into it. Why do some people have a hard time rejecting misinformation?

Zach Hambrick:
Well, one reason is that misinformation is often repeated. And the more a piece of misinformation is repeated, the more likely people will come to think it’s true. We should distinguish between misinformation and disinformation. Misinformation is some false piece of information where the person disseminating the information didn’t necessarily intend to mislead. Disinformation is information that’s intended, false information that’s intended to mislead. It’s a subtle distinction, but definitely relevant.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
So, disinformation is a lie.

Zach Hambrick:
Right.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
And misinformation is an accidental misrepresentation.

Zach Hambrick:
Right, right, right. [crosstalk 00:04:02]

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Okay. Okay. So I could say today is Thursday, and that would be misinformation.

Zach Hambrick:
Right.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
But if I said my name is Bill, knowing full well that my name is Ned, that would be disinformation.

Zach Hambrick:
Right. That’s the basic idea. Yeah.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
So, why do we believe the lie, the more it’s told?

Zach Hambrick:
Well, one reason, based on research from cognitive psychology, is that as a claim, a false claim is repeated over and over it becomes more familiar and we process it more fluently. For example, if you’re reading it, you’ll read it more quickly. And we use that fluency as a judgment for the truthfulness of something, rather than its actual truthfulness.

Zach Hambrick:
This is one of the mechanisms that seems to account for, or what called in cognitive psychology, an illusion of truth. You’re rating the truthfulness of a claim or a piece of information based on its familiarity, based on how fluently you read it or how easily you process it, rather than it on having some knowledge in your long-term memory that it’s the truth.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Well, how can the innocent citizen like me detect misinformation that’s information [crosstalk 00:05:49]

Zach Hambrick:
Yeah. Well, I think what this… As I write about in the Scientific American article, one of the things that you can do is begin to serve as your own fact checker. Okay? And if you hear a claim and you’re convinced that it’s true, then ask yourself why you think that’s true. Is it because you have some credible evidence that the claim is true? Or is it just because you’ve encountered it over and over? And on a related note, you should ask yourself if you know of any evidence that refutes the claim. And I think that not infrequently, if you query yourself in this way, you’ll be surprised to find that you actually do have some evidence that refutes the claim.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
But most people… I’ll speak personally. I’m not going to take the time to do that. I’m not going to… So if I read, “Pope Francis shocks world, endorses Donald Trump for President,” I’ll say, “Wow, that’s amazing!” And I’ll just swallow it whole. So, am I not typical? Do most people naturally get skeptical?

Zach Hambrick:
Well, I think that’s another problem here, is that you come across something and you read it quickly on the subway or something. And you may not even remember where you got that piece of information.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Right, right.

Zach Hambrick:
And this is a problem with what we call source memory. You might forget that you saw this as a headline on the National Enquirer in checkout at the grocery store and not in the Guardian or the New York Times or The Economist. And I think that, again, what’s critical here is that people be critical of their own beliefs.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah.

Zach Hambrick:
We constantly, in this information age where we’re constantly bombarded with information, some of which will be true in some of which will be false, we just have to be cognizant, A, that there’s a lot of mis- and disinformation out there and, B, that you have to take responsibility for your own beliefs and interrogate them to see whether or not they’re true or credible.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Well, I mean, how much does a, what’s the term, observant? What’s the term where you agree with what you want to…

Zach Hambrick:
Illusion of-

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
What is it called?

Zach Hambrick:
Illusion of truth?

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah. Okay. How much of that is, do we believe what we want to see and not believe what we don’t want to see?

Zach Hambrick:
Well, that’s another dimension to this. It may well be the fact that people are more likely to believe misinformation that comports with their preexisting beliefs.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
So, is that what’s meant, is confirmation bias?

Zach Hambrick:
That would be an instance of confirmation bias, yes. That, along with seeking out information that confirms your pre-existing beliefs. If you only look for and focus on and process the information that agrees with your preexisting beliefs.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
So, how do you take someone who doesn’t want to… Let’s take climate change as an example. I happen personally to believe that’s one of the most pressing problems that the world faces today, but there are intelligent, responsible people who think I’m completely wrong and that it’s all a hoax, that it’s just some kind of made up scare tactic that liberal politicians have invented to, I don’t know… I don’t know why they do it, but in any case, responsible people can disagree about the validity of global warming, which I personally think is the most pressing emergency that we’re facing in the world today.

Zach Hambrick:
Right.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
So, what do I do, and what do the people who think I’m full of it do?

Zach Hambrick:
Right. Well, there’s this interesting research that seeks to use online forums where people discuss and try to come to an understanding of issues in groups. And what this has found… There’s another… I actually wrote a Scientific American article with my colleague and friend Jonathan Jennings on this. Jonathan is a director of an environmental organization called Health and Harmony.

Zach Hambrick:
And so what they did in this was quite interesting. They gave people a graph showing, I believe it was the amount of ice in the Arctic Sea. Yes, it was the amount in the Arctic Sea. And their task, working in groups, was to make a forecast for the future. Okay?

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Zach Hambrick:
And the overall trend is in fact downward, indicating further loss of ice in the Arctic Ocean. And what they did was quite clever in this experiment. In one condition, they didn’t make any political orientation information salient among the group members who were chatting in this online group, and in another condition they did.

Zach Hambrick:
And basically, the finding here was that people were more accurate, the groups were more accurate, when political information was not made salient, was not made salient. And these groups included both conservatives and liberals, people who identified as such. And so the implication here is that when political information is made salient, whether you’re Republican or Democrat or a liberal conservative, then people have a hard time thinking rationally.

Zach Hambrick:
And when we set aside politics, we can actually… There’s a real value to having conversations with people with whom we disagree. In fact, we’re more likely to come to the right answer, in this case with respect to climate change. And so I think that’s one way. If there were ways in which people could harness the power of what we might call collective intelligence and work together to solve these difficult problems, while setting aside politics, then I think we would all be better off.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Well, why can’t computers do that for us? I mean, we can make computers talk to each other.

Zach Hambrick:
Right. Well, to some degree they can, like make forecasts. I mean, definitely computer models make forecasts that are relevant, for example, to climate change. But then in the end, people have to interpret what the computers say. And in the end, it’s humans making decisions based on value judgements that are informed by, but not completely dictated by, evidence.

Zach Hambrick:
So in the end, when we decide about what we want the world to be like, whether it’s with respect to environmental legislation or any kind of legislation for that matter, then I think that humans are ultimately making the decisions. And computers, they can inform those decisions, but there’s still a human interpreting what the computer model, for example, says.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Over the past few months, I’ve spoken to my friend, the founder and creator of OmegaBrite Wellness, Dr. Carol Locke, about the benefits of taking OmegaBrite’s Omega-3s, CBD, and other supplements. Here’s a clip from one of those conversations.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Well, I’ve certainly found them to be mood stabilizing. My mood is all over the place. I don’t know what diagnosis I have other than ADHD, but my mood is very labile, up, down, in-between, and quick to change. And I’ve found that the omega-3s really helped me with that, not only with my musculoskeletal issues but the mood issues as well. It is a wonder drug. I mean, what can I say?

Dr. Carol Locke:
Thank you. We hear that a lot from people. Particularly in the pandemic, we’re hearing from customers that they’re finding it essential with their mood. They’re also finding the OmegaBrite omega-3 essential in their relationships. Keeping their mood stable, positive, and feeling less anxiety helps them with their family relationships.

Dr. Carol Locke:
And I think anything we can do to help kids, parents, and teachers right now, because of this added stress of do they go back to the classroom, a changed classroom with partitions and masks and social distancing, or are they at home with their parents who are stressed is such a powerful situation. I think we want to help give people tools to put in their toolbox to succeed and to feel like they’re thriving and able to learn during this stress.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Distraction listeners, you can save 20% on your first order at OmegaBriteWellness.com by using the promo code PODCAST2020. All right. Let’s get back to today’s topic.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Well, as a professor of cognitive psychology, to what extent do you think emotion, confirmation bias, and lack of information contributes to our so-called opinions?

Zach Hambrick:
I think they do greatly. And I think they really do when we’re talking about highly politicized issues, whether it’s abortion, or the death penalty, or meddling in elections, and so on. I think that we know, in fact, from a lot of research on the general topic of rationality, we know that our preexisting beliefs, our politics, influence the way we think and behave. Even highly intelligent people are prone to react to irrationality. This was really the fundamental insight of a program of research by Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky-

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Kahneman, yeah.

Zach Hambrick:
… beginning in the 1970s. And Daniel Kahneman won the Nobel Prize for this. And so, yes. I think it’s a big problem. And-

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
And Kahneman’s basic thesis was what, is that we are far more irrational than we’re aware of?

Zach Hambrick:
Yeah. I mean, his basic demonstration and basic argument is that people make decisions based on intuition rather than reason. And those intuitions might be right, but they quite often are wrong. And this leads people to make irrational decisions.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I always like to remind myself there was a time in history when the absolute, most smartest, intelligent people in the world knew quote, unquote, the world was flat.

Zach Hambrick:
Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Exactly.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
It brings you up short. So we are, by nature, pretty easy to manipulate, if somebody knows just what buttons to push.

Zach Hambrick:
We can be. We certainly can be.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
So what’s our best safeguard against that, Zach? What’s the-

Zach Hambrick:
Well, one is the kind of engineered environment that I was talking about before, where for example, people are interpreting evidence concerning climate change and they’re doing so in an anonymous virtual setting.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Right.

Zach Hambrick:
Another is basically having the, we call it metacognition. It’s thinking about your own thinking, having the metacognitive skills to know when you’re prone to errors in making judgements and decisions. For example-

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
So it’s like going shopping when you’re hungry.

Zach Hambrick:
Right. Exactly. That’s a good analogy, or knowing that there is such a thing called the confirmation bias. How do you make yourself less susceptible to confirmation bias? Well, the first way is knowing that such a thing exists.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Right.

Zach Hambrick:
And there’s some evidence to suggest that training about such things de-biases people, at least to some degree. I think those are examples of ways in which we might, if not making ourselves completely immune to these sorts of errors and biases and judgment decision-making, making us less susceptible.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I want to tell you about Landmark College in beautiful Putney, Vermont. It is the best college in the world for students who learn differently with ADHD, for other learning differences, or autism spectrum disorder. It’s fully accredited, not-for-profit, offering bachelors and associate degrees, bridge programs, online dual enrollment courses for high school students, and summer programs.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
They use a strength-based model at Landmark which, as you know, is the model that I certainly have developed and subscribed to, to give students the skills and strategies they need to achieve their goals in life and really expand upon what they believe they’re capable of doing. It is just a wonderful, wonderful place and I can’t say enough good about it.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I myself have an honorary degree from Landmark College, of which I am very proud. Landmark College in Putney, Vermont is the college of choice for students who learn differently. To learn more, go to LCDistraction.org. That’s LCDistraction.org.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Okay. Let’s get back to today’s topic. It’s humbling, it really is, to know how, at least in my own case, how easy it is to manipulate me, whether it’s with food or money or whatever temptation I might [crosstalk 00:22:03].

Zach Hambrick:
Right. Well, that’s right. And I think that your awareness of it is absolutely critical, because now you want to understand. Okay, you recognize that, you’ve had the humbling insight, that you’re prone to making irrational decisions and that your buttons can be pushed. And so now, beginning with that insight, you seek out ways in which you can kind of protect yourself from that.

Zach Hambrick:
There’s this amazing research by a psychologist named Philip Tetlock, where they basically tried to identify people who were good at predicting world events, political events like, “Will Iran and Iraq go to war,” and stuff of this sort. This is a program of research funded by the military. And they identified people who they called superforecasters.

Zach Hambrick:
And the superforecasters were able to forecast these seemingly unpredictable events, or at least very difficult to predict events, better than anyone else. And they did so by not falling prey to biases like the confirmation bias. They were bright, but they weren’t geniuses in kind of the traditional sense of the term intelligence, but what they did know about were these kinds of biases and making judgements that we all seem to be prone to. And they were able to avoid making errors based on these biases.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
And was there any variable that separated the superforecasters from the rest? Or is there any cognitive trait?

Zach Hambrick:
That was the one. That was the one. It wasn’t intelligence.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Right.

Zach Hambrick:
It was knowledge of how biases in judgment, decision-making, like the confirmation bias, the my-side bias, and so on.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
So like in football betting, people are more likely to bet on the home team.

Zach Hambrick:
Yeah. There you go. Yeah. A perfect example, yes.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah. So if you-

Zach Hambrick:
I guess, let me just say a little bit more. They were also people who didn’t think they had one big idea that could kind of dictate all of their predictions, and said they were information seekers who were willing to change their mind if that’s what the evidence dictated. They weren’t ideologues, maybe, to put it another way.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah.

Zach Hambrick:
They were people who sought out evidence and revised their beliefs as that evidence dictated. They weren’t dogmatic.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah. Well, and again, that brings me back to wondering why couldn’t a computer do it better, because there’s no emotion involved? Then the computer is only as good as the information you give it.

Zach Hambrick:
Well, yeah. That’s exactly right, how the computer’s only as good as the information that you give it. Somebody has to write the programs. And in fact, computers are better than humans at certain things, like predicting the stock market.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Are they really?

Zach Hambrick:
That’s not… Go ahead.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I said, are they really? That’s interesting.

Zach Hambrick:
Yeah. In general, there was a long series of studies beginning in probably the 1960s, 1970s showing that statistical models do better than humans in predicting certain things, the weather-

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
For all of the reasons we’ve been discussing.

Zach Hambrick:
That’s right, yeah.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Well, this is so spot on for living in today’s world. So what did your article conclude? I haven’t read it. I will, but-

Zach Hambrick:
The take home message of the article… This is the Scientific American article on the Illusion of Truth. The take home message is, as I said before, that we have to be our own fact checkers in this information age, in this misinformation age. And I think that it really… This type of research that I write about… Incidentally, this is not my own research. This is other cognitive psychologists’ research… is that this thread of fake news, it poses a real threat to democratic society.

Zach Hambrick:
This research really underscores this threat that fake news poses to democratic society. And of course, the aim of fake news is to make people think and behave in ways that they wouldn’t otherwise-

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Right.

Zach Hambrick:
… including to hold views that are contradicted by scientific consensus and scientific evidence. This is very relevant during this pandemic. Recently, Trump tweeted that he was immune from COVID-19. I don’t think any doctor who knows anything about this would agree with that. It may, it may not. We don’t know this.

Zach Hambrick:
And so when this nefarious aim of fake news is achieved, we as citizens no longer have the ability to act in our self-interest. We’re misled. We’re deluded. And this, of course, isn’t just bad for an individual, it’s bad for society as a whole, as starkly illustrated by the pandemic.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah. It just brings you up so short. I mean, everyone would love for our president to be immune. And so when they hear him say he is immune, the confirmation bias says, “Okay, great. You’re immune.”

Zach Hambrick:
Well, that’s right. So, what comes out of his mouth, some people think of that as news.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah.

Zach Hambrick:
And in this case, that is fake news.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Right, right, right.

Zach Hambrick:
And so this research, again, just highlights the pernicious effects of misinformation and disinformation in a democratic society,

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Boy, it’s really cautionary to not let yourself seduce yourself into believing what you want to believe. It’s hard not to, because it’s very tempting to just think [crosstalk 00:29:28]

Zach Hambrick:
Right. And we have to constantly ask ourselves, “Why do I believe this is true?”

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Right. Right. And then, as you say, talk to someone who disagrees with you, wrestle with it instead of just talking to people who agree with you.

Zach Hambrick:
Sure, that’s right.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
If you’re liberal, you should watch Fox News. And if you’re a conservative, you should watch MSNBC. You should test it out a little bit anyway.

Zach Hambrick:
Dig a little deeper than the news story.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah. Don’t just eat what you’ve been fed. No, exactly, exactly. Then we wonder about the motive of the person who’s saying it, and what are they leaving out, and what are they lying about, frankly? Well, you’re a very smart man. And thank you so much. Zach Hambrick and his article, Cognitive Ability and Vulnerability to Fake News. He’s a psychology professor at Michigan State University, a great university. And it’s a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Zach Hambrick:
Thank you. Okay. Thanks. Goodbye.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Take care. Okay. Well, that’s our show for today. Please continue to reach out to us with your questions, comments, and show ideas. Email us at [email protected] That’s [email protected] Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is the wonderful, ebullient Sarah Guertin, and our recording engineer and editor is the equally ebullient and wonderful Scott Persson, and that’s with two S’s in Persson. I am Dr. Ned Hallowell with four L’s. Thank you so much for joining me and we’ll see you next time.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
The episode you just heard was made possible by my good friends at OmegaBrite Wellness. I take their supplements every day and that’s why I invited them to sponsor my podcast. Shop online at OmegaBrite, and that’s B-R-I-T-E, Wellness.com.

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ADHD vs. ADD: What’s the Difference?

ADHD vs. ADD: What’s the Difference?

So what’s the deal… is it ADD or ADHD? Dr. H answers this common question and explains how symptoms determine which type of ADHD you have.

Dr. Hallowell’s new book, ADHD 2.0, comes out January 12th. Pre-order Now!  Click here to pre-order your copy of ADHD 2.0.

Check out Dr. H on TikTok! @drhallowell

Thanks to our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness! Dr. H takes OmegaBrite supplements every day and that’s why he invited them to sponsor his podcast. SAVE 20% on your first order at OmegaBriteWellness.com with the promo code: Podcast2020.

Click HERE to learn more about our sponsor, Landmark College, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. Dr. H has an honorary degree from Landmark!

What’s your opinion? Send an email with your thoughts to [email protected].

Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is Sarah Guertin and our recording engineer/editor is Scott Persson.

Check out this episode!

A transcript of this episode is below.


Dr. Ned Hallowell:
This episode is made possible by our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness. I’ve taken their omega three supplements for many years and so has my wife and that’s why I invited them to sponsor my podcast. I’m proud to have them. You can find all of their products online at omegabritetwellness.com and “brite” is intentionally misspelled, B-R-I-T-E, omegabritewellness.com. This episode is also sponsored by Landmark College another institution that I have a warm personal relationship with in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. Learn more at lcdistraction.org.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Hello, and welcome to Distraction. This is Dr. Ned Hallowell with a mini episode. One question that comes up in the ADHD world all the time is what is the difference between ADHD and ADD. So let me clarify and bring some resolution to the confusion.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Technically, attention deficit disorder, ADD, no longer exists. In the diagnostic manual the DSM-5 there is no ADD. When I first learned about the condition back in 1981, it was, indeed, called ADD, attention deficit disorder, and that was what was in the DSM-3, the third incarnation of that manual.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Well, as the years went by, the good people who make up the names of these conditions decided to insert the letter H, ADHD, attention deficit, hyperactivity disorder. And then rather than saying, “We have ADD and ADHD,” they said, “No, it’s all going to be under the umbrella of ADHD.” And those people who are not hyperactive, we will call ADHD primarily inattentive because their main symptom is distractibility and inattention. And those people who are both inattentive, and hyperactive and impulsive, we’ll call them ADHD combined type. Now that leaves room for a third type, which would be only symptoms of hyperactivity and impulsivity with no problems with attention, but you virtually never see that so it’s only of academic interest.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
So there you have it, ADHD. There is no ADD, but clinically there is, and we call that ADHD primarily inattentive. Now, why is that relevant? Well, because a lot of people who have ADHD, primarily inattentive, mainly women and girls, but can be in men, never get diagnosed because they don’t have the disruptive symptoms of hyperactivity and impulsivity. They don’t call attention to themselves, be they a child throwing spitballs in the classroom, or an adult raising hell in the landscape.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
So what happens is the women, the females usually, get overlooked because they’re demure, they’re quiet. They’re sitting in the back of the room daydreaming. You have to ask them what’s it like in the classroom? And they say, “Well, I’m almost never there.” You see? Because they’re off in their own world. And that’s why they don’t get missed.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
And then when they become adults, if they show up and ask for help, almost always, they get diagnosed with depression or anxiety or both. And sure enough, they are a little bit unhappy, depressed, because they’re underachieving and they know they could be doing better and they don’t know why. And they are kind of anxious because they don’t know how they’re going to screw up next. But both the so-called depression and anxiety are caused by the untreated ADHD.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
And so if you’re a woman who is underachieving and it has a tendency to be a daydreamer and is creative and all the positives, things that go with it, consider ADHD, primarily inattentive as your diagnosis and don’t take depression and anxiety as your primary diagnosis because if you do, you’ll get put on an SSRI, selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor, which might do a little bit of good, but it has side effects that are not pleasant and also won’t get at the underlying condition, which is the ADHD.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
For that if you’re going to take a medication, you need stimulant medication. Okay, which by the way, is safe and effective as long as it’s used properly. That’s it. That’s the explanation. It’s very clear and causes a lot of unnecessary confusion. It’s an important clinical point to know that you can have ADHD without being disruptive, without being hyperactive. There you have it. Okay, before I go, I’d like to thank our sponsor, Omega Brite Wellness, go to omegabritewellness.com and save 20% on your first order with the promo code podcast 2020.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our recording engineering editor is the wonderful Scott Persson and our producer is the also wonderful Sarah Guertin. I’m Dr. Ned Hallowell wishing you well until we meet again.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
The episode you just heard was made possible by my good friends at Omega Brite Wellness. I take their supplements every day and that’s why I invited them to sponsor my podcast. Shop online at omegabrite, and that’s B-R-I-T-E, wellness.com.

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Strategies for Successfully Working From Home with ADHD

Strategies for Successfully Working From Home with ADHD

Being prepared and developing routines are key to staying organized and being productive if you have ADHD and are working from home. Our go-to productivity expert and ADHD coach, Kristin Seymour, offers a ton of simple life hacks you can utilize to help you stay on track in your job and increase your overall happiness.

Kristin’s website is ADHDFogLifted.com. Get her book and her resource binder!

Pre-order Ned’s new book, ADHD 2.0 on Amazon.

Check out Dr. H on TikTok! @drhallowell

Thanks to our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness! Dr. H takes OmegaBrite supplements every day and that’s why he invited them to sponsor his podcast. SAVE 20% on your first order at OmegaBriteWellness.com with the promo code: Podcast2020.

Click HERE to learn more about our sponsor, Landmark College, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. Dr. H has an honorary degree from Landmark!

What’s your opinion? Send an email with your thoughts to [email protected].

Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is Sarah Guertin and our recording engineer/editor is Scott Persson.

Check out this episode!

A transcript of this episode is below.


Dr. Ned Hallowell:
This episode is made possible by our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness. I’ve taken their Omega-3 supplements for many years, and so has my wife, and that’s why I invited them to sponsor my podcast. I’m proud to have them. You can find all of their products online at omegabritewellness.com… and brite is intentionally misspelled B-R-I-T-E… omegabritewellness.com

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
This episode is also sponsored by Landmark College, another institution that I have warm personal relationship with, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. Learn more at lcdistraction.org.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Hello, and welcome to Distraction. This is Dr. Ned Hallowell, your host. So glad you’re with us once again. Today, we have one of my favorite… and I can say our favorite… guests. I can’t remember how many times she’s been on the podcast, but more than twice. She’s a remarkable woman. She’s one of those people who just gets it when it comes to ADHD. There are experts and then there are people who get it and she is, yes, an expert, but she also gets it. That just means when you’re with her, if you have ADHD, you feel understood. For a lot of people, particularly adults, they almost never have that feeling of being understood without being marked down, without being judged negatively. They feel understood, appreciated, and it’s just being with her, for many adults, is in and of itself pretty much all the therapy they need.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
In terms of credentials, she’s got them all. She’s a board certified clinical nurse specialist. She works with cardiology patients at Barnes-Jewish Hospital in St. Louis. She also is an author. She wrote a wonderful book called The Fog Lifted: A Clinician’s Victorious Journey with ADHD. I highly recommend it. The Fog Lifted. She works with ADHD kids and their families, as well as adults. She consults to businesses, hospitals. You just can’t slow her down. Of course, she has ADHD herself, as she’s the first to tell you, and she’s just a tremendous gift to this world with her energy, her knowledge, her expertise, her empathy, and her undying devotion to all the people she serves, which is quite a few people. I can tell you, I’ve called her on a Sunday and she’ll say to me, “I can’t talk long. I’ve got another client coming in.”

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I don’t think she ever stops working. In addition, she’s married to a wonderful man and has two of the best daughters you could ever find.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Welcome, Kristin Seymour, MSN, RN, AHCNS-B.

Kristin Seymour:
Thank you, Ned. Thank you for your kind introduction and kind words. I most appreciate it and your support over the years. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Well, it’s a treat for me and our audience to have you. Now, we are going to get into a topic that you proposed because you’ve been seeing it a lot, and one that we have not really covered on the podcast. Why don’t you tell us about it.

Kristin Seymour:
Okay. What I have been working with, with countless of my adult patients in the past several months, is the reality of the overnight shift for the ADHD employee to go from an office setting or work setting outside the home, instantly to a home setting, which provides much distraction and is a big, huge challenge for many of my adult patients.

Kristin Seymour:
The reason I believe that this massive change and this debilitation for many of them is because there’s no mental or physical mind shift. You know how when you go to the gym from your house, you’re in the moment to work out. Or you go from your dorm or your apartment or your home to the office, you are in a work mode. Without that mind shift, many people are finding it very hard to be productive and stay on task. We’ve had to adapt their lives and implement strategies that they have found to be pretty effective and helpful in making this new environment successful and productive.

Kristin Seymour:
In order to help that mind shift, I even have some of my patients, once they get up, make their bed, brush their teeth, and get dressed as if they are going to an office, some of them even go drive around the block just to move their mind from the thought of, “Okay, I’m going from my home as a sanctuary and a place of rest to, now, I’m coming back to the house or apartment or whatever as an employee, as a producer.” That’s been really helpful. But keeping that routine and structure in place, same wake and sleep time, maintaining their prescription medication as directed and prescribed, is all key to being successful with this work at home environment. Creating a schedule, writing it down, keeping it visual, things like that are really essential for these visual learning ADHDers.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah, absolutely it is. One suggestion is to do the mind shift.

Kristin Seymour:
Yes.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
And what’s the second one?

Kristin Seymour:
Oh, I have many.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Okay.

Kristin Seymour:
Waking up at the same time every day, even if your first meeting, Zoom call, conference call, whatever platform you’re working from isn’t until maybe an hour after you typically wake, still get up at 6:30 or 7:00. Go for a walk, exercise, keep your body on that same routine.

Kristin Seymour:
The biggest thing a lot of my patients are missing is they don’t have a good understanding of writing down each platform of a meeting. For instance, you have Google Meet, Adobe Connect, Zoom, Google Classroom. You have all these different ways people are communicating and a lot of people have different passwords, different usernames, so I tell them, “Log on 10 to 15 minutes and be sure you have the right meeting platform, the right time zone, and have everything charged and ready to go,” because a lot of patients are missing simple things like that. It has nothing to do with their production or their productivity or their content, it’s just being organized, on time, and on the right platform, with a charged device. Those are all things we can control.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. All right. What’s next?

Kristin Seymour:
Another thing that will be really helpful for them is to space their appointments, if possible. If my patients are able to schedule all appointments… whether they’re a phone call, a virtual video call… everything 30 minutes apart so that you have that 30 minutes to recapture yourself, jot notes, stay on top of it, stay on time, stay organized, so that at the end of the day you’re not playing catch up.

Kristin Seymour:
On that same note, you want to make sure that you answer your emails as they’re coming through, but don’t get all tied up and hyperfocused on them if it’s going to take more attention than a couple of minutes. Print that, put it to the side, and know you have to get to it later. Those are all things that have been real time suckers and get my patients down a rabbit hole of they get tied up in one email or they run late on a meeting. Use alarms. Use technology. Space your appointments.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Right.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Over the past few months, I’ve spoken to my friend, the founder and creator of OmegaBrite Wellness, Dr. Carol Locke, about the benefits of taking OmegaBrite’s Omega-3s CBD and other supplements. Here’s a clip from one of those conversations.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Now, there are many different products, brands of fish oil. Why is OmegaBrite the best?

Carol Locke:
What I can speak to with OmegaBrite is it’s a very different formula than typically what you can get in the store or online and OmegaBrite is clinically proven. We have over 10 studies in major academic centers showing OmegaBrite improving mood, helping with bipolar, with depression, with ADHD, with anxiety, with inflammation. So, it’s a very proven product for you to gain these benefits and these benefits, we know, come from OmegaBrite. You can’t get that with a typical Omega-3, which has, say, 180 milligrams of EPA in it. That just isn’t going to provide that benefit.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Distraction listeners, you can save 20% on your first order at omegabritewellness.com by using the promo code PODCAST2020.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
All right, let’s get back to today’s topic.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
What should they do about the lack of human contact?

Kristin Seymour:
That’s a good one. One of the most important things they should do is, if they’re living alone, to check in with another adult. Whether it’s a significant other, a neighbor, a family member, to everyday check in with someone either on a walk social distancing, have a Zoom call just socializing with friends, but mask, get together. I think the social isolation is really difficult. I think not having the camaraderie of a team in a work environment around you is difficult. As long as you check in with yourself, check in with one other person, and then always socializing with your spouse and stuff. Make sure you tell your spouse and your significant other, roommate, family what you need right now. Because what I need is different than what you need. Maybe that friend needs to give them reassurance. Maybe it’s their boss telling them they’re doing okay. The social isolation is really devastating to these people and they have to think outside the box in how to see one another, but there’s lots of things that we can do that aren’t in an office.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Maybe they miss their boss and they want someone to yell at them, so you could ask someone to yell at you.

Kristin Seymour:
Right. Exactly.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I’m just kidding, Kristen.

Kristin Seymour:
I have a man I’m working with-

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I’m just kidding.

Kristin Seymour:
… I have a man I’m working who, he’s in his mid-20s, and is a very successful architect type of position and he was really struggling with all of them, with the lack of structure and time and to-do lists and things being visual. So, we got his significant other on board. She was such a partner in it. We utilized a white noise machine to drown out distractions of delivery trucks and barking animals and just typical things.

Kristin Seymour:
Then, we actually also contacted his supervisor and just said, “He’s adjusting to this. These are the things we’re implementing.” The boss was so empathetic and understanding. He didn’t have to go into this whole history of his diagnosis, but he just said, “Look, this is a whole new world, particular for my distracted mind.”

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I was kidding when I say get someone to yell at you, but I think a lot of people miss having the cheerleading, and that could be yelling, “Come on, team. Let’s go. Let’s go. We’re going to nail it today. We’re going to go through the roof.” And it’s just not there. It’s crickets. I think the encouragement, cheerleading that people often dismiss as superficial is, in fact, profoundly important.

Kristin Seymour:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I think you’re right on. I think your first point of with crickets, when you said that, an idol mind can be a devil’s workshop. These people that can be so prone to that default mode or hyperfocus or going down a dark place, this is a real serious time for them. So, like you said, the camaraderie, the team work, the cheering them on, is really essential. It can be, I think, knowing as you say, Ned, no one should ever worry alone, whether it’s worrying about their work, worrying about their family. They need to tap into someone they trust. If they don’t have someone, there are a lot of resources. There’s a lot of hotlines. There’s a lot of support groups and people you can talk to.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yep.

Kristin Seymour:
The other thing is utilizing those grocery delivery apps or food delivery apps to help maximize your time during the day. Auto pay all your bills. Make sure you remind yourself on your calendar to have your medication refilled. A lot of those controlled substances, people forget about them. When you’re at home, you just kind of assume things are going to be done. You got to remember to call and get your medication refilled.

Kristin Seymour:
There’s a lot of things we can do to help them be organized and be focused.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
You mentioned the food delivery services. On the other hand, I look forward to going out to the food store as sort of my outing. Oh good, I get to go to the food store and push my cart, get a little exercise, see some human faces behind masks, smile at them, talk to the deli counter guy. It’s my little trip to the park and I get my shopping done. So, I don’t want a delivery service, but I can certainly understand people who do. You’re absolutely right, it is a way to save time.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
I can’t not add that no one needs to be alone. Get a dog. I know this is a broken record because I squeeze it into every podcast, but it’s no accident that God spelled backwards is dog. Particularly if you’re alone, if you have a dog, believe me, you won’t feel alone.

Kristin Seymour:
Yeah, I loved when you said in a lecture at one of the conferences a couple years ago, you said you had written more prescriptions for dogs or a pet than you did for anything else.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yes. Yes, I don’t know how many people filled those prescriptions, but I really-

Kristin Seymour:
Yeah, I think the dog, having someone to love unconditionally there, is great, or take care of. I just can’t stress enough how much this lack of a mind shift and getting them into that mind space of production for these patients has really been a challenge. I don’t think many people are really talking about it. People are just really struggling with their jobs and there’s been a lot of layoffs and furloughs. It’s just a really tough time right now. I love your quote, “Just never worry alone. Be there for each other.”

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
… The only reason I go to my office… I live in Arlington, have an office in Sudbury… and the only reason I get up and drive the half hour drive to the office in Sudbury is just for that mind shift. There’s nobody there. A couple of administrative assistants, but I don’t see any patients live. It’s all done by Zoom, which I could just as easily do from home, but I want the feeling of getting in my car, driving out there, coming in, unpacking my briefcase, setting up my laptop, getting a cup of coffee, sitting down, opening it up, starting the Zoom. You’re so right. It’s a kind of a ritual that my brain is accustomed too.

Kristin Seymour:
Exactly.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
If it doesn’t get it, it’s sort of saying, “Okay, what the heck’s going on here?”

Kristin Seymour:
Exactly. That lack of a true shift happens when one physically moves from one environment to the other, like you said, and when that’s out of our control we have to create a natural shift. That’s why I said I have a couple of my patients driving around the block-

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
That’s a great idea.

Kristin Seymour:
… and then going back into their home as an employee because it’s just so going to the hospital to do my job, or coming to my office to see patients and Zooming them from here. Just like you, it makes me feel like I’m in a different head space.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Don’t you think it should be more than around the block? Maybe drive a few miles?

Kristin Seymour:
Yeah, that would be great, depending on how big their block is. But it’s just, I would say, in the exercise piece and movement, the ADHD brain loves movement. So, I will do one part of my role from Zoom in my office where I see ADHD patients and then I do another part of my role from my home because we can’t go to the hospital right now, due to limiting COVID exposure unnecessarily. It’s interesting. You have your different head spaces for your different places and I think people really need to play into that and really think about that because it’s a big deal.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
What I’m going to do now is engage in a conversation with a delightful young woman by the name of Katie [Labumbard 00:17:43]-

Katie L.:
That’s me!

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
… a student at… there you are… a student at Landmark College, our podcast sponsor and the college of choice for students who learn differently. Welcome to the podcast, Katie.

Katie L.:
Thank you so much. Love to be here.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Well, the reason we want to talk to you and follow you along is track your progress at Landmark College. You’re a senior, is that correct?

Katie L.:
Yes, correct.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
And you’re graduating in the spring?

Katie L.:
Yes, so that’s one more semester after this one.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Tell me what it’s been like to be at Landmark.

Katie L.:
Well, as we all know, this semester in particular has been very different, but beforehand it’s a life changing experience. High school is absolutely terrible and I can’t speak for everyone, but most of the people I have met here, we share a universal experience of having a terrible high school experience, whether it was from segregation into the special ed classrooms or just not getting exactly what we need in terms of education or that social experience that helps us grow.

Katie L.:
So, I came to Landmark, I think, very developmentally delayed, very awkward, very not ready for anything in the real world. To come here and be able to not start over but have different supports that I wasn’t used to, have people that understood what I was going through and see me of the same light and go through what others have gone through, that was so helpful, incredibly.

Katie L.:
Now, I feel like I’m where I’m supposed to be. Now, with this whole pandemic going on and classes being different, everything being different, it’s hard to learn, but as I said before, people here, we’re used to adapting. We’re used to needing to step it up and learn maybe more than other people would have to. So, I think we do have a leg up there, but that being said, it’s still difficult.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
What are your hopes and dreams? What do you hope to be doing after you graduate from Landmark?

Katie L.:
Oh man, that’s definitely a scary thought. My broad dream is to open a business. I’m an entrepreneur. I think that career style fits good with how I work and learn, especially with being my own boss, but that’s really as much thought as I put toward my future, especially with the career. Within my recent years at Landmark, I’ve gotten really into activism, especially with the newer diverse movements and with women’s movement and women’s rights. I’ve also really gotten into that. We’ll see where that takes me.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Good. Good for you. Most entrepreneurs have ADHD, so you’re in really good company. Thank you. Thank you so much, Katie.

Katie L.:
Yeah, you too. So nice to meet you. Thank you so much for doing this.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Listeners, if you’d like to learn more about Landmark College, the college of choice for students who learn differently, go to lcdistraction.org. Okay, let’s get back to today’s show.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
How under the weather, so to speak, psychologically, do you think most people are because of this? I think I say none of us is getting enough of the other vitamin C, vitamin connect. We’re all suffering from a little bit of a vitamin connect deficiency, but are you seeing it really bothering a lot of your folks?

Kristin Seymour:
Yes. I don’t think I’ve ever honestly been as busy right now as I am and a lot of it is because my patients are struggling, young and older, particularly this 19 to 30 year-old cohort of patients. Whether they’re single, married, whatever their state is, they are struggling. It’s hard enough to think differently and have our super powers as ADHDers in a typical environment with just regular pressure, social media, and everything else, other pressures. But then to have this social isolation and restrictions is just making people feel even further apart from each other and it’s really affecting my folks in a big way. It’s affecting the students with their assignments. It’s affecting their action in class. It’s actually setback, significantly, a few of my patients who I’ve made a lot of progress with, because it’s so unfamiliar and isolating. They feel terrible. We’re really working hard to be outside and create new habits and find new sports and things like that.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
So, being outdoors, whether permitting, is another key strategy?

Kristin Seymour:
Yes. I actually told a patient the other day, I said, “Well, get a rain coat and go walk in the rain.” Come on, it doesn’t have to be sunshine and lollipops and rainbows every day. Just put on a rain coat, get an umbrella, and as long as it’s not thundering and lightning, go take a walk. I’ve been biking. I’ve got a little girl I’m working with who’s 10 who’s taken up golf because she gets to be outside and she can be a part.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Wow, that’s wonderful. That’s really wonderful. And a walk in the rain, well you know my children’s story, the only children’s book I’ve ever written, the title of it is A Walk in the Rain with the Brain.

Kristin Seymour:
Right.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Walking in the rain [crosstalk 00:23:41]-

Kristin Seymour:
So, getting outside, changing the environment, changing your work environment home, connecting with your friends and family, making sure you stay compliant and on a schedule and routine. People just expect it to happen and people who are on a routine and get ample sleep every night and eat, and have hard-boiled eggs, something protein packed, things ready in the fridge to grab if you’re in a hurry in the middle of the day to eat between meetings, just start to prepare yourself. Those life hacks we always talk about. Have things ready so you’re not flailing.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
… And you’re so good at those, you really. So, half a dozen hard-boiled eggs and some carrot sticks ready and a pickle or two.

Kristin Seymour:
Exactly. I always tell people, I’m like, “Grab some sunflower seeds. Have about six hard-boiled eggs ready in your fridge. Have some bottles of water. Fill your big… You have a cooler in the back of your car so if you do go, Ned, like you to your office and work from a Zoom and you want to do errands on the way back, throw your produce in a cooler. Leave a cooler in the back of your car. Have your car always at a quarter tank full.” Our people always run out of gas.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
That’s another great suggestion.

Kristin Seymour:
Or else they’re coming to me on fumes. Those are just some simple life hacks. Have your prescriptions post-dated and put on the hold file in the pharmacy if your state allows that. It’s just all those kinds of things. Make your bed every day. Then, you’ve done one thing right.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah, it’s so true. Filling your tank. Another suggestion I make is to have a joke book nearby at all times. I think we can-

Kristin Seymour:
Oh, I love that.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
… I think these days we can suffer from excessive solemnity. It’s got to be jokes that you think are funny, but not just any joke book.

Kristin Seymour:
Right.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
But a joke book that will reliably make you laugh because it is true that laughter does dilute a lot of negative feelings.

Kristin Seymour:
It does. And just smile. When you start your Zoom meetings, smile at each other. I read the other day that a smile is the starch of peace. It really is. If we all just took a minute. Everyone’s in such a hurry and so angry all the time right now. It’s really a crazy time, but the one thing we can do is be gentle with ourselves, plan ahead, be cognizant of a mind shift, and just try to be gentle with yourself. Everyone’s so hard on themselves right now too. But I’m your boss-

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
And be kind. There was a big survey, hundreds of thousands of people, voting on what are the three most attractive qualities in a person. Not physical attributes, but what are the three most attractive qualities. What do you think the top three were?

Kristin Seymour:
… That aren’t physical?

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Not physical.

Kristin Seymour:
A positive attitude?

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Well, kindness. Number one was kindness.

Kristin Seymour:
Kindness.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
They called it kindness. Yep.

Kristin Seymour:
What were the other two?

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Number two was health, to be in good health. And number three was intelligence.

Kristin Seymour:
Wow. That’s fascinating. That’s probably so true. Being kind is important, but I don’t think enough people are right now.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
No, no. Really, we’ve really got to do something about it, no matter who the president is. We really need to.

Kristin Seymour:
Oh, I know. I was in line the other day and this little elderly woman was behind me and had one item and I let her go ahead of me and the person two behind, even though we were all six feet apart, got mad at me. I was like, “What is wrong with this scenario here?”

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Really. That’s amazing. Got mad at you for letting a little old lady with one item get in front of you?

Kristin Seymour:
Yeah.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
That’s just-

Kristin Seymour:
I was just like, “Wow.” So, it really made me think, “Okay, we all need to be a little gentler with ourselves, a little kinder, a little more forgiving and just get through each day right now,” because this is not as easy time for anyone.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
… No, it’s not at all. No, we’re all a little frazzled, I think. These are great suggestions, Kristin, as always. [crosstalk 00:27:59]-

Kristin Seymour:
Oh, yeah. You’re welcome. I just think that the idea of the mind thing is really… it’s kind of, when you really think about it… it really can help people then framework how they can be most productive, how they can take this nuance, this new way we’re living and try to make it work because you’re home and your home should be your sanctuary. Yeah. But you can make it. I don’t care if you live in a studio apartment, you can find another little corner-

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
… Yes, absolutely.

Kristin Seymour:
… that’s different and put a little plant there. Figure it out. A little change up. People can help you. I’m always here.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
You are. Now, if someone wants to reach you or go to your website, what’s the best way to do it?

Kristin Seymour:
Well, just going to my website’s probably the best and that’s my ADHDfoglifted.com website. I have this whole-

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Wait a minute. Let me say that for the listeners that don’t know it. ADHDfoglifted.com?

Kristin Seymour:
… Right.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
ADHD, fog, F-O-G, lifted, L-I-F-T-E-D, .com and that’s Kristin’s website and you can reach her through that. Then, of course, her book, The Fog Lifted: A Clinician’s Victorious Journey with ADHD. It’s a wonderful book. It’s autobiographical, but it’s full of [inaudible 00:29:14] and it’s full of wonderfully useful and amusing and deep and moving anecdotes and ideas.

Kristin Seymour:
Thank you. Thank you, Ned. There’s also my binder that’s on there that gives virtual learning tips for the elementary school student, the college student, the adult that I think has been real helpful for parents because it’s a whole new… parents turned into teachers overnight. I think that this provides some real good tools that are from different articles and different resources all at your fingertips in a few pages. That’s on my site too, if anyone needs help with that.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Wonderful. I can tell you if that binder is like taking a special ed consultant home with you. It really is amazingly detailed. Not in a boring way, in an encyclopedic useful way. It’s a wonderful resource.

Kristin Seymour:
That’s right. You saw that. I just added a tab for virtual, so you know exactly. Yeah. It’s even more robust now.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Good word, robust. Well, Kristin also wrote a robust blurb for my new book, which won’t be out until January but I am tickled to have her name on the back of my book.

Kristin Seymour:
Oh, the new book? ADHD 2.0 is fabulous.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Thank you.

Kristin Seymour:
Honestly, as an ADHDer who finds reading to be something I have to do and usually don’t want to do, I wanted to finish that. I wanted to read it. It was awesome.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Thank you so much. Well, I think you can order it in advance on Amazon now, but it was wonderful to-

Kristin Seymour:
Yeah, it is excellent. It’s informative. It’s a great navigator and guide. I loved it. I think you and Dr. Ratey did a great job. I mean, it’s wonderful.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
… Thank you.

Kristin Seymour:
I hope everybody…

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Thank you.

Kristin Seymour:
I thought it was great and I think all the books are great, but I think that one and Distraction are fabulous. This is even better.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Thank you so much. And yours, we’ve got this mutual admiration society going here, but it’s true. You really are like the ADHD whisperer. You just get it in a way that very few people do. Anyone who-

Kristin Seymour:
Thank you.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
… is lucky enough to have a consultation with you, comes away the better for it.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Well, will you promise to come on my podcast again someday?

Kristin Seymour:
Of course. You know I love it. It’s so fun. I always love chatting with you.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Good.

Kristin Seymour:
We always share some great information.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Yeah. Well, it’s been great having you.

Kristin Seymour:
Thank you so much.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Thank you for this wonderful contribution today and we’ll talk to you soon. Take care, Kristin.

Kristin Seymour:
You too, Ned.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
All right. Well, that’s our show for today. To learn more about Kristin Seymour, go to ADHDfoglifted.com. You can watch the short videos she creates every week for parents of school-age kids with ADHD and you can also get her 100 page resource binder filled with strategies and tools for success with ADHD at home and at school.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Kristin is also on Instagram with the username ADHD Fog Lifted. You can also find Distraction on Instagram too, as well as Facebook and Twitter. You can find my 60 second videos clips on ADHD on TikTok. We now have over three million views on TikTok, so it’s worth going to check it out. It’s @DrHallowell on TikTok. I’ve unloaded a bunch of videos there and I’d love to hear what you think.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Our email is [email protected] That’s [email protected] Okay, as I said, that’s it for today. Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is the wonderful Sarah Guertin and our audio engineer and editor is the brilliant Scott Persson. I’m Dr. Ned Hallowell and thank you so much for joining me and us.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
The episode you just heard was made possible by my good friends at OmegaBrite Wellness. I take their supplements every day and that’s why I invited them to sponsor my podcast. Shop online at omegabrite… and that’s B-R-I-T-E… wellness.com.

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A Post-Election Plea for America

A Post-Election Plea for America

As we await the results of the presidential election, Ned shares his wish for all Americans.

hanks to our sponsor, OmegaBrite Wellness! Dr. H takes OmegaBrite supplements every day and that’s why he invited them to sponsor his podcast. SAVE 20% on your first order at OmegaBriteWellness.com with the promo code: Podcast2020.

Click HERE to learn more about our sponsor, Landmark College, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. Dr. H has an honorary degree from Landmark!

What’s your opinion? Send an email with your thoughts to [email protected].

Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our producer is Sarah Guertin and our recording engineer/editor is Scott Persson.

Check out this episode!

A transcript of this episode is below.


Dr. Ned Hallowell:
This episode is made possible by our sponsor, OmegaBritewellness. I’ve taken their omega-3 supplements for many years, and so has my wife, and that’s why I invited them to sponsor my podcast. I’m proud to have them. You can find all of their products online at omegabritewellness.com and bright is intentionally misspelled, B-R-I-T-E, omegabritewellness.com. This episode is also sponsored by Landmark College, another institution that I have warm personal relationship with, in Putney, Vermont. It’s the college of choice for students who learn differently. Learn more at lcdistraction.org.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
This is Dr. Ned Hallowell with a mini episode of Distraction. Now that the election is in its final phase, I just thought I’d make a prayer or a plea, as we move forward, for decency and civility, grace and humor, regardless of which side ends up winning. And it looks like there’ll be winners and losers on both sides. Couldn’t we all enjoy moving forward, guided by those pretty much solid and eternal qualities of decency and civility, grace and humor. Wouldn’t it be nice to turn on the TV, open the newspaper, turn on the radio and hear reasonable, calming voices, laced not with vitriol, venom and hatred, but with humor, with humility, with curiosity.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
The people on the other side of the election, whichever side you were on, nonetheless, our brothers and sisters. We’re all brothers and sisters in this world. And my plea is that we learn once again to treat each other that way, especially the people who are on the other side of the divide. I’m reminded of a prayer that I particularly like. It goes like this, “Lord, help me always to search for the truth, but spare me the company of those who have found it.” It’s the people who have found the truth and want to ram it down everyone else’s throat that I think cause the most trouble. No one, after all, has a monopoly on truth. We’re all human. We’re all flawed. We’re all biased. We’re all more apt than not to look out for our self-interest before we look out for the other person. Let’s keep that in mind as we try moving forward, to move, not just onward, but also upward. This is Dr. Ned Hallowell with a reflection for Distraction.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
Okay. Before I go, I’d like to thank our sponsor, OmegaBritewellness. Go to omegabritewellness.com and save 20% on your first order with the promo code, Podcast 2020. Distraction is created by Sounds Great Media. Our recording engineer and editor is Scott Persson, a brilliant man, indeed. And our producer is the equally brilliant and always rich with ideas, Sarah Guertin. I’m Dr. Ned Hallowell, and thank you for joining me. We’ll see you next time.

Dr. Ned Hallowell:
The episode you just heard was made possible by my good friends at OmegaBritewellness. I take their supplements every day and that’s why I invited them to sponsor my podcast. Shop online at OmegaBrite, and that’s B-R-I-T-E wellness.com.

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